The Overly Excited Podcast

This episode is brought to you by Swash Clothing and Sugar Life.

Welcome to the overly excited podcast hosted by Jack Watts and Dale

Sidebottom. Two friends with a passion for life, learning And all

things that get them jumping out of their seats.

Alrighty, everyone. Welcome back. This is, 2 little ducks Bingo

style number 22 episode for the overly

excited. Who doesn't love a bit of bingo? With my cohost, Jacko. How are you,

great man? Good to be here. Sorry. I missed you, mate. No. I know. I'll

be here. A little hiatus. And I'll tell you what, we're packing a punch here.

We're starting the year old with a bang. Damian Doc Murdock all the way from

Noosa, The best part of the world. How are you, great man? Yeah.

Good, lads. How you doing? Well, we're excited for this, and I'll

tell you what. We start every podcast jacked We have a question.

And if I forget starting with this question, I'll cop it for the next 10

episodes. So so, doc, what gets you excited,

mate? What gets You're jumping out of bed, out of your skin. What are you

what are you desperate to do today? Well,

I thought you might ask me that.

I had to think about it. I suppose today, the main thing,

as we record this, I'm flying down to Melbourne tomorrow to see a guy called,

doctor Andrew Huberman. If you've heard of him, he's at Oh. Huberman

Labs. The Huberman, man. Huberman Labs. That's there Yeah. Yeah. So I'm flying

out in Melbourne to see him tomorrow, so I'm pretty excited about that. I've been

following him for probably 10 years, like, as a result of, You

know, the anxiety and so on I had in the past.

And then he start the Hermann Lab in 2021, I

think. And, Yeah. I've been following him closely since then, and

pretty pumped. I'm glad he's talking about for a Taylor Swift concert.

I'm going to that in about a week's time, doc. So It is awake, is

it? I was running around. Do the Huberman Taylor Swift double. Double.

Yeah. So you jumped on about 7 years before everyone

else did on the on the Herman train. How did you I got on

to him I got on through a mentor of mine, actually, who met him in

the States, and I just he was really helpful for me because he

just Just he he had a lab

studying fear, and that's what I was sorta overcoming, like

anxiety and and panic attacks and so on. So Things that he

said back then really resonated with me, and then with clients, I've been

quoting him for ages. And so it's been, yeah, it's been

interesting. I remember up. He's taken off. Yeah. I I remember that.

Doubt. The whole suicidal doubt. Oh, no doubt, mate. He is unbelievable. I remember

You sent me a podcast, one of his very early ones, and I've never heard

of him. You sent 1 around the benefits of play.

I reckon I reckon I've listened to that about 5 or 6 times. Always go

back to it, because there's so much I don't know. People have got a lot

of science and evidence and research, but The way he uses it, but

then actually talks about it being practical and things like that. Yes. I

can see why you're probably, jumping out your skin excited to get there, mate.

So Yeah. I'm pretty pumped. What have you got? Is it like a seminar or

something, or do you actually get to meet him? Or No. No. It's just,

yeah, it's a seminar. So we're still in six knows around Australia. He's

doing 2 in Melbourne, I think, and it's at the convention center and

just go along into a fanboy and Amazing. Good.

I love that now, mate. Obviously, for listeners out there, a little bit of your

backstory and Things like that. You you're from Shepparton, and, so

am I. Great. 3630 postcode if you're wondering, everyone. Right.

Place to be. But, doc, I think today, we're gonna you know, you've

already mentioned around, like, fear and that you suffered anxiety. Do you wanna,

like, give a little short brief for people about, you know, your

journey and where you've come from and and what you're doing now because,

yeah, I I think anxiety is something that a lot of people have in certain

aspects, and everyone Feel some form of it throughout their life, and,

I think the way you talk about it and, I know I've had you on

my other podcast a couple of times, and The way you articulate it and talk

about your experiences is really powerful. Yeah.

Well, my story was it's similar to do you do you know the tomboy story

if you heard him Talk, the former number 1 draft pick. He retired

at 23 or something because of his anxiety. Probably Yeah. Are you in, like, a

WhatsApp group within a club warehouse? Hey. He's live.

Oh, I've got the call number 1 draft picks, is it?

Sorry. Keep going, buddy. But I heard, I heard Tom talk, and it

was like I mean, there's a lot of things that aren't similar about our

stories, but I really related to his the way he talked

about it. So he talks about if you Start off, you're nervous in front of

2,000 people. Then it becomes a 1,000, then it

becomes 500, then it becomes a 120 and so on. And that's what sort

of happened to me. Like, it it was just my club, my

comfort zone just closed in on me, basically. And Tom talks about how

it started off for him. He was getting

nervous match day, then it was the night before he couldn't sleep. Then it was

getting anxious before main training sessions, and then the night before

training sessions. And then it got to you know, he wasn't sleeping for 4 days,

you know, just loading into a game. And, yeah, as I said, that that's

what sorta happened to me. It started out with a fear of public speaking,

And then the comfort zone sort of closed in, then I was

starting to get these panic reactions. And when I was saying a fear of public

speaking, like, it was major. Like, it was I get Panic attacks,

like, where I couldn't get any words out, like, just choking on the

words. Yeah. And so when, Then

then it became I was getting that reaction ordering lunch and

then, you know, of groups of any more than I worked out. It was

about 6 people, anyone in 6 people became in

my brain, my nervous system, something to be feared, and I'd get that

reaction. And then it got to the stage where I was

getting that leaving the house and then leaving the

bedroom, and that's When you get to that stage, it's pretty,

yeah, it's pretty torturous existence. And was that, like, a

gradual thing, doc? Like, it it came, you know, and was it was it

later in life? It sort of came out of nowhere? Or The

worst that I'm just talking about, the worst times was when, I

was about 34. Yeah. So but it started off. Like, now I've got

done all this work in myself, and I sort of can trace the the

key Moments where, you know, one thing led to

another. It was like a chain reaction of things. So it started off when I

was, you know, about 14 or just Normal teenage stuff. Like, you know, I've

heard people talk about this as bullying, but I don't look at it

as that. It was just rejection, and you're gonna get that at some

stage. And so I got that. You know, a couple of mates rejected me

from the group, 1 to 5 me at a party and so on. Yep. Then

the way that I interpreted that, you know, the meaning I put on

that that caused the problems later on. You know? It meant

that, you know, in my head, it was like, you know, I can't

be myself. I've gotta be something else to

to fit in and so on. So Yeah. That mask we we we

speak about that a lot. Mean, like, the mask that we think we have to

put on, but, you know, it's it's very easy to say that when

you're looking back at it, but at the time, That's the that's your coping

mechanism. You've gotta do that? Yeah. So when that happened, that was

year 9, and, that's the worst year in life. You know? And, mom

took me to a psychologist, and looking back, I had depression, and I

sort of suffered that off and on for 30 years and after that.

But it was it was basically, like, at the end

of year 9 that I decided I still remember where

I was that Yep. It was it was on school holidays going back to school,

and I decided that I wasn't gonna say anything unless I knew it was gonna

be a winner. And so you're setting that dialogue up in your head where

you're judging everything. And so then as that went on, it's just

this, You know that voice in your head sort of thing? Like, with anxiety,

with you showed me someone that's anxious that definitely that

voice is is not help. You know? So as

it went on, then, you know, I lost fear. I lost, confidence

public speaking, which I'd loved Up until then, I was really natural

and really enjoyed doing it up till that time. And

then Had a few things, you know, like, I

was because I couldn't control, you know, in normal interactions,

I could control the you know, what I said and how How, you

know, control that little group I was in or whatever, but public speaking,

you haven't got that. And so that became a fear for me, and then

it just took a a few Bad experiences like the work

presentations in 21st and things like that where that

just got worse and worse. You know? I didn't, I got that fear, and then

once that it's like a domino effect. It just gets gets worse and

worse. And then it it was just this really Innot innocuous

incident, like, at dinner with mates when I was about 22 when I was

I was telling a story, and then as you might stood just hanging shit on

you, just said, Oh, you're a shit storyteller? In my head, I'm just

going, you know, I am, mate. I'm not a I'm a listener. I'm not a

talker. And so that when, you know, these little decisions that you make, and

then Yeah. The other way You put so much weight on. You

might probably never thought about it ever again. Yeah. But I've

still never told him it. If I told him, he'd be chatted.

Yeah. Yeah. I'd pro he probably hang shit on me about a dickhead it

was. Right? Probably probably now you can look back at it. If if

things hadn't changed, then he probably wouldn't be able to. It is it's an interesting

one, though. I remember I was MC for, one of the boys'

weddings and, one of the my Melbourne teammates. And

I just left, went to per per, Port Adelaide came

back with was the MC the year after, and I sort of you know, I

haven't spent a year there. There's a few new players there and whatnot. I get

up. I'm the emcee, and I'm trying to be funny. And I said a couple

of jokes and stuff, and I just felt after and they didn't

land. A couple of them didn't land very well at all. And,

and then I just remember, like, I barely drank the whole wedding. I barely

as as soon as it was done straight back to my room, I was stressing

about it. I messaged these 2 guys like, hey, mate. Like,

sorry. You know, I was trying to be funny and blah blah. And they

sort of, you know, oh, mate. Don't even worry about it. It's fine. But in

my own head, I'm I was stressing about it for weeks afterwards.

It's just interesting how you can blow it up in your own head so much

more than what anyone else is really thinking about it. You know?

Yeah. And this is the danger. Right? So, you know,

with my story, it's basically a model of how these things can develop.

So that that happened that When I was 22, that was like a

long chain of events led to that thing in the restaurant. But

then I decided that I wasn't a public speaker, and

So my nervous system's listening to that decision. It's just like, okay.

Alright. We don't speak in public anymore. So I didn't do that for a few

years, and it got to a point where I was was living in London, and

I was working at an international shipping company.

And I sorta had a bit of imposter syndrome being there. I didn't feel good

enough to to be in that position or whatever. But, it

was just at a sales meeting, and we're just going around the circle. And

we just had to retake in terms of rating Writing

it from this, page, and I'm a good writer. There's no need to be,

yeah, nervous or anything. But as it got closer, My heart just

started to beat out of my chest, and the whole room closed in on me.

And I it I had what's by now, and I was a panic attack. And

As it it got to the guy next to me, and I got up and

took off and out of the out of the, room

and just found myself downstairs in the Well, it just pacing up and down going,

what the hell is going on? And then I talked myself into

going back up, but then that didn't end well. And then As a result

of that, like, I tried to be funny, and it didn't it didn't work

well. Yeah. Very lucky. And

I already thought I was lucky. Yeah. Because I'm Dairy farmer from Zia Austin. They

already hung a shit on me about that. And he got rural rural. He getting

rural rural. Yeah. Exactly. And then that joke just didn't

land. And then As a result of that, it was I made a

decision then. I'm never speaking in public again. Right? So then

that's now set up in your nervous system, and then

As it as it went on when I moved back to Australia, I couldn't do

job interviews. You know, I that's why I

started my own business because I couldn't do job interviews, Really. So

some but your nervous system is just

finding but just it's it's It's really good at picking up on any chance

that you might be asked to speak in public or whatever, and then you get

those Mhmm. Panic actions, and it's just yes. So then

as as time like, life was still good, but then I was just avoiding I

was hiding this fear of public speak. I didn't talk to anyone about it. You

know? So, You know, I

was engaged of and then there's no way I could go through that wedding, so

I didn't, you know, I didn't Didn't get married. I got asked to emcee

weddings. I got asked to speak to schools, you know, on on behalf of the

business, and I just knocked all those things back. And But then

as time went on, then it got worse. It was Yeah. Once you

I I want that story to keep going. One thing I I find fascinating

is Going back to that shipping yard where you're in a circle

and you're all taking in turns to read. Like, this is one of the things

I talk about a lot that You are that is the ultimate thing. You

should never have the limelight on 1 person. Do you mean, like, everybody

isn't probably listening to the next person talk anyway, doc, because They're so nervous

about what they're going to read, and if they stuff it up, it's such a

it's it it blows my mind that situations like this still

occur. Like, if Yeah. You know? And from what you've done now and everything like

that, it there's no point to it anyway. Like, why do why does that

sort of stuff keep happening? Yeah. I don't I

don't know. Look. It's there there is situations. I mean, it's a skill you sort

of need to have because, I mean, with the,

And as soon as that came up, I'd leave the room, and I'd come back

in 10 minutes. Yep. But I need to go out and do that sort of

thing. You know what I mean? It's like just like well and when you can't,

you are just living in this in fear of

a putting get putting on the spot. So you're just living life

Trying to avoid these situations, and it's just continually on your mind.

Yeah. See like, I think there's a bit of a difference between, like, just being

out of, you know, Introduce yourself or something very simple and

and then putting someone on the spot and purposely trying to catch them out

or whatnot. Like, there's you don't wanna do that, but, You know? Yeah. You need

the skill. You need that skill to be able to you know? Whatever it might

be. But Yeah. And how much how much control do

you have over this the odd you know, like, That at the

time, it doesn't sound like you had much control at all. Your body sort of

took over and, you know, it's It's, you know and

what what annoys me, like, people sort of who who have never experienced

anxiety or whatever. Oh, just do this and, you know, oh, just it's

like, you don't, Like, you can't Yeah. You can't really comment if you've

never experienced it. You know? Fucking shoes. Okay. Like, as we talk about empty

Yeah. How do you know what they're going through? You can't give them That's right.

It makes it worse. Yeah. Yeah. And that's like I'll I'll work off this

model, and it's got 6 boxes. And what you're talking about is the 5th box

that the action. Everyone said, just do this. Just do this. But it's like

you act from your emotional state, and you get into an emotional

state through the self talk. And then before that is The belief

that gets triggered in the 1st place. Like Yeah. And anyone with the fear of

public speaking will know is that, like, if you're in a crowd and

All the the speaker just has to ask someone else to speak, and all of

a sudden, my heart is going bang before I've even had chances to think about

that. My body already knows. Shit. If they're he's asking

that, and he might be next. My nervous system is like my nervous

system is we're out of here. Come on. Come on. You know what

I mean? It's like yeah. I think of that as like a like

a bodyguard sort of thing, and it's like the like an bodyguard, you

know, and it's just like the Someone moves or whatever, and he's got he's got

me in he's got me in the the window or whatever, you know, of the

movie, The Bodyguard or whatever. You know? He's got me in the. It's just like

I'm high vigilance, and he's just overboard, but it just

yeah. Anyone that suffers it knows that it's not something you

can just Control with your mind. It's like that once that

trigger goes off and your heart is beating and the room

all changes and all those seems seems like if you had a panic attack,

Jack, have you, like, have you had had severe anxiety?

Not quite. No. No. I haven't really had severe anxiety or

or Anything like that. So I'm I'm probably one of those people that can't

really comment on, you know, that whole sort of thing shutting down

and, You know, just not being able to do something, you know, I

can sort of always yeah. I've been nervous doing you know, getting up and giving

a speech or whatever it might be, but, Yeah.

Probably never quite got to that debilitating stage at all, but

I've certainly noticed, and I think probably as I've gotten older,

Almost, you know, like that that wedding

situation, you know, like, just how much that affected me. And then,

Like usually I'd just roll in if I was an MC. No worries. But then

I think I had a bet that bad experience early on where I didn't feel

like I was very good at it. And then I've got probably been MC 4

or 5 times since, and it's you know, I've been very, very

nervous or and it's almost been like a Replaying it? Yeah. It's

been half like going in thinking, fuck. Don't try to be too funny. Joke to

game. But then don't but then you still gotta do something. You still gotta be

semi funny, but then, oh, shit. It's a It's sort of as far as public

speaking go, it's probably the hardest gig. Mhmm. Like, it's Yeah. Not it it's a

very hard thing to do. Because you gotta be Have you had any moments, Marty?

I actually actually had a panic, but didn't know at the time. But,

during the last lockdown in COVID, I remember I was walking

my son, and I just couldn't stop crying, just

because of, you know, every everything that was going on. And,

Yeah. Like, I'd it's debilitate. I'd just sit on the ground like he was only

1, and he's looking at me. I'm just crying. I have to do a

lot of work to come back from that because I just kept bottling things

up. But now you'll be right. Keep pushing with your business. Like, Don't worry about

that. You'll find ways to do it, and, you know, I think biggest

problem with that is I valued a lot of my self worth to what I

did and my identity through my business. And it was probably a good

thing that that happened, and I was able to figure it out that I am

not my business. I'm a person before anything else. But, yeah, I was really,

It wasn't around public speaking or anything, but it was just like my whole body

shut down. I couldn't stop crying. Like, I no. It was It was

a it was a strange feeling and one I don't wanna experience again.

Yep. And how'd you go? Look. Say your TED talk, for example. How'd you go

With that, like, was that anything for you? Was that different to a normal

speech? I'm sorry with that. 100%. Like, I think I practice

that. I recorded myself over a 100 times doing that. I don't Yeah.

I don't practice anything I do. I just get up and start talking. And I

think the thing with doing a keynote or talking for a day, you've got a

whole day to talk, Whereas, the TED Talks, you've only got 15 minutes. And

to be able to put it all into that and get it right, and, there's

always guidelines. So I was Petrified. That's and

I still get nervous before any talk, but nowhere

near as that that was yeah. But I I I was glad I did it

because I overcome that fear, and I knew I put the work in, so it

worked. Mhmm. And it's it's probably a good lesson for me that If you put

the work in on anything, it's like, you know, if you do a big preseason,

then you're gonna be more inclined to have a good round one and exactly the

same, you know, with anything you do in life. The more preparation you put in,

I think that helps those anxiety and the nerves before you get up there.

Yeah. And I think that's the that's the good thing about anxiety. That's what it's

actually forced to actually make sure you're prepared. It's like

that. That's where that's the positive part of that voice. It's just like, This

could this could happen, you know, like, you you know, it's just like you you

run find yourself watching this, my movie of really stuff and up, and it's just

like, oh, yeah. I I need to get more prepared for this, you know. So

That's how it's meant to work, but it's when it gets debilitating,

it's just, yeah. It's just I mean, with panic attacks,

the the way I Explain it to people,

who've never had one is like, if you hold your head underwater,

have you ever done that for you know, after 25 seconds, you'll

Feel like lifting your head? If you can keep it under there for, say, 45

seconds, you'll start to get some major changes,

and your Your brain will be screaming at you to lift your head because

it wants to keep you alive. Right? That's what it feels

like in a panic attack. It's like it's like you're gonna drown, and It's just

everything's just your heart starts beating and everything changes, and it's like you're

in a tunnel. That's for me. It's different for everyone, but it was,

yeah. When when I did free diving, that was where I'd really realized

that that's that's that feeling. It's absolute

panic. Yeah. And so when you're when you're free diving, you you have to learn

to control that self talk, get through that, keep

your mind calm, and then just let your body do what it can do. And

now you walk out of there a few hours later, and you've been underwater for

4 minutes, and It's just like, wow. But you've gotta get

through that you gotta get through that self talk, that panic. You know what I

mean? Because it yeah. So it's, yeah, that's that's how I'd

explain it to people, who have never experienced one. Because you you can't imagine what

it's like unless you've gone through it, I think. I guess it's having the skills

to be able to do that, to be able to get through it. Like, I

feel like, you know, I look back and, You know, I guess my

childhood and my upbringing and having, like, a very

lot, you know, loving, caring family and, You know,

certainly not one thing or the other, but I think having that sort of support

and foundation as a kid growing up, like, I was

a pretty confident, You know, kid, and so I

I think that sort of certainly helped me, you know, deal with tough

situations or, You know, is that does that

have anything to do with it, or or can it be completely random, you

know, people with that get anxiety, it can come from anywhere sort of

thing? It's, yeah, it's an interesting, question

because I mean, it's it's basically what's getting triggered in the 1st

place is your beliefs about self or you know, that's wide into your

body. Like, once I've made the decision, I'm not a public speaker. I'll never speak

in public again. That's wide in here. Right? So then that's what's

getting triggered. Right? So if you have a

if you grow up, And you've got really strong, robust

belief systems. Things aren't gonna trigger it. They're gonna trigger you into

positive outcomes rather than negative outcomes. That's right. Mhmm.

But there's parents sort of can't win, right, because you can have a really

healthy upbringing, really good family life, but This

your parents never, you know, never go off the handle or anything, but they do

this one time. That's true. And because they because as a kid, you're

not used to it, that has this marked defect on your or something else

has a and then that's in your nervous system. So You're

almost so protected now. Like, you're almost when you're you've had this Perfect life.

It's almost you're so protected that one little thing can set you off, whereas the

kid who's dealt with it every night of his life is like, oh, that's nothing.

I can deal with that. Does that mean, doctor, you should just be a bad

parent and, you know, like, then you're not gonna get that one? Yeah.

You are more than sorry. Worry about it. This is like, I can I've been

told just be bad or be no good at it. It does matter.

I'm joking, Nipen. I I and that's I am

joking by the way. Yeah. Freeze that up. I

mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, by the expert that I could

just let off the chain here. Oh, doc, with with

the, mate, because, there was stages there where you couldn't get out

of bed. Yeah. Like, what what was that like?

Because was that, like, a panic attack every day or just when you're in

bare bones, that's what it was? Yeah. I was living I mean, it

was a like, I had depression with it. So, like, you

know, he was sleeping for long periods of time and so on, but It got

to the side. Yeah. I was I was having these reactions leaving the house, and

so the the only respite from that was The

newspaper, you know, the Herald Sun. It's back in the day where we used to

actually buy the newspaper, and and I used to

go I used to make sure I had the exact change. So

then I could just walk into the shop, get the paper, give them that

Back home. Right? But then the the owner was the Saint George's ride shops

in, Shepparton for the for the ship folk. It

was Yeah. And they had this there was this

beautiful Indian couple that owned this shop, and they they invited me for

dinner. They must have recognized that something wasn't Right with me,

and so they invited me for dinner. And so now that became a

thing every day where I'd have to go and and I'd have to talk to

them and Base, so I'm out to the front of the shop. Monday

just pacing up and down. I couldn't bring myself just to go in and buy

a paper, and that was that was basically the the last The

last day, really. That's that's the lowest point I remember, and that

night was, yeah, just torture.

Never really well, and then that Weekend, that's when everything changed. You know? That's

when I had to my mates were, like, beside themselves,

and, yeah, I was pretty close to Pretty close to the edge, and

then that's when, you know, I had to just take take off from work.

And Yeah. And started

From there, doc, like, what what did you do? What

things did you put in place? What helped you the most? Yeah. I'm

really interested to know, like, You know, I'm sure

you've yeah. From what you've gone through, I'm sure you've picked up some real sort

of things that were most important to helping you.

Yeah. There was yeah. There's a number of things. So, initially, I

went for a road trip. I came back and tried to work again. Couldn't

Moved to Perth and, just got a job as a landscape gardener and, like,

my my role there was just to try to turn up every morning and not

be a weirdo. You know? Because Just try to talk to people and

reintroduce myself to society, basically. And then I've got a bit better, then I

moved back to Melbourne and Took on a bar manager job there, and then

I was ready to I was still in a pretty bad way, but I came

back and I got my business ready to sell and moved

straight to Queensland. And, and I went to uni. I because I realized that this

was, like, over a 2 or 3 year period, and I've seen psychologists, and

nothing's changing really. You know? So I realized I had to work this

out myself. Mhmm. So I went to uni to study a bachelor of health science,

learn about the Mind and the body and everything.

And then in the course of that, I had a I had a

subject with a lady called Judy Shearer, And I

pulled out of that subject because we had to do an oral presentation, and I

couldn't I just couldn't do that. Right? So I pulled out that subject, and she

I ran into her and she said, you know, why do to pull out, and

I told her. And she said, come and see me. And she had a private

practice doing something called NLP if you've ever heard of that.

No. I I mean linguistic programming. Right? And so I learned

more in that hour and a half with her than I'd learned in the

years before. And So I walked out of there knowing that that's what I wanted

to do. And, you know, I did two and a half years at uni,

but then I got more and more. Just went down the mindset path, and I

did NLP, hypnosis, and all that sort of

thing. Got qualified and all that, but I'm really just doing it for myself just

sort of trying to sort myself out. And then there was a lot of there

was things on the side. Like, I just did things on outside the

square, which really, really helped. There was one course I did.

It was jumping out of a plane and skydiving, but they taught you how to

do that without any emotional response. So it

was it really taught me about the

the power that focus has, What you're focused

on. You know, this my movie you're running because if you run the movie that

you're gonna fall to your death, that's the anxiety. Right? Because that's what

anxiety is. It's Taking your mind out into the future and imagining bad things

happening. Right? Yep. So I really learned that that course. And it was funny

because most of the people in that course were, there to get out

of fear of heights, whereas I I didn't care about jumping out of the plane.

I I was scared I was shit scared of the video at the end because

when they're playing I didn't keep that jumping out of a

plane. It was like so all the visualization stuff we're

doing, everyone else is on the On the jumping out of the plane, a bit

more minds around what how I'm gonna,

step up to the camper and so on. You know? So it was Yeah. It

was funny, but there there was that one then there was Wim Hof back in

the day, like, in back when he was first start coming to Australia,

2014. I went along to one of his things. You know Wim Hof, wouldn't you?

Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Oh, awesome. The awesome. Mate. They,

big property. He was, his pioneer. Yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. So that was, that was really important for

me just to like, the breath holds he does and and jumping in the

ice too. You know? I went to a thing down the Gold I think it's

2014, and, there was none of us in this

hospital, and there was 1 big gym, you know, massive

guy, like, Really carried on and all that, but out of I

was 2nd worst, definitely. I was like and it just and, Wim says, you

know, they asked us to mirror, and I realized that's So I'm quick to anxiety.

I'm I'm quick. You know? That was a real that was really important for me.

And the breath holds that he gets you to do as well, That's like free

diving in that it really teaches you about your

self talk and just and the way that your brain will go. You

gotta breathe Right there. And but you can actually become you can just sort

of watch that chaos. Does that make sense? It. Yeah. Yeah. You can control it.

Become the watcher of your thoughts. You are not your thoughts,

and that is that is the most important thing Yeah. To

learn. In my opinion, that's what to my, Yeah.

Meditation in its early stages, that's what, you know, a lot of people say

they can't meditate. You know, they think too much, But don't like

just yeah. What are you thinking about? What's your thoughts? What are you annoyed about?

What do you who do you wanna That's almost the whole point of meditation is,

you know, you can't yeah. You Bring your thought back Being present. My anxiety can't

occur if you're present. Realistically, you know, it

doesn't it normally happens when you're Worried about something that may never occur in

the future. That's where it builds up, isn't it? Well, that's how I talk about

it. Yeah. And so it's these things, like, there's

meditation, but these things like free diving, jumping down

plane, ice baths, you know, even cold showers, they force you to

to look at that. Yeah. Because if you like, if you're free diving and you

give in to that voice, then you might die. You know? So

you Learn pretty quick. And you listen. You know? You don't listen to

school or whatever, but when you lost it, danger you. Listen. You know?

And you do what meant to do, and you just learn that you actually can

control this because and you learn to laugh at it too. And one one thing

that was really important in that regard is, the com comedy course

I did. So we're not you know, I worked on my public speaker, did some

courses, and did Toastmasters. And then,

Yeah. The idea of a a comedy gig came up. I saw this poster of

a of a, stand up comedy course, and I knew that that was

the scariest thing that I can do? That is the scam part of me.

I'll put my hand up, doc. I speak every day. That's like

that's a goal I want to do one day because it Petrophies the shit out

of me. Like Yeah. I'm just not even. No. I'm not even

bothering. I I'll do anything else on the planet, but

Yeah. Do you like, dog? Like, how can you go from Yeah.

Just getting over the fear of public speaking to say, right, I need

to do a stand up comedian routine. Look. How do you do that?

Well, it's basically what what what you're doing is you're you you're slowly

nudging your way beyond what with clients is you're nudge your way outside your

comfort zone because you've gotta increase that comfort zone. Right? So you just do little

things just to nudge the boundaries back. Right? But if you can do something like

And I knew it because it it's what I talk about. When I saw the

poster, it was like, I tried to avoid it for 3 months, but it it

just kept going. You gotta walk you talking. Because I tell start work with

clients at that stage, and I was like, shit. I've gotta do it.

So I just went into it. And but I learned it it

forced me To use every skill that I've learned Yeah. Over that

time. It was like my grand final where I had to and it

was interesting. Like, I had all these skills, and I was okay leading into But

I was first up after the interval, and on the actual gig, there was,

like, 220 people or something. And during the interval, Oh, well,

I was feeling fine, but then the boys started. And this time, it's not screaming

at me. It's just like, you know, you got nothing to prove here. You just

and I was Looking out the window, it's just we'll just walk out there, and

I nearly did it. And so by this stage, it's not yelling at me anymore,

but it's just finding that way to just get you out of the and That's

what I'm saying. Does. Just get Yeah. I guess, like, that wasn't yeah. You didn't

just jump straight into that. You did you took it took a whole lot of

work Just nudging outside your comfort zone, doing little things that you

were achievable. And then it was sort of, you know, you can't really just go

from nothing to everything Yeah. And hope that you're gonna

succeed, can you? Yeah. Well, it's I mean,

it it's best probably to build yourself up, you know, just to, like,

Increase that comfort zone like like I'm talking and then but, eventually,

like, once you do that, then once I've done that gig, then

that blew the boundaries of my comfort zone apart. Yeah. Alright.

Then No. No. No. Mate. Yeah. Then I did a, you know, I did a

radio show where And that was to the next stage where, you know, it's

okay to build myself up for an event, but to rock up every week then

was the next challenge, you know. And so you just sort of slowly

getting your comfort zone back. Yeah. And then there's

still things that trigger me, and I'm like, what's going on here? Like, you

know, it's it's like Doing corporate stuff, that

was the next thing because I don't have to see myself as a corporate person.

So once I got asked to speak into companies, I was like,

Oh, I can't do that. I don't do that. I'm not a cook you know?

And that's the same thing again. It's those beliefs, you know, and so you gotta

deal with that. And yeah. So it's still there's still a couple of things. I

couldn't get up The MCG, I talk in front of a 100,000 people. I

still just marvel at people that can do that, but, you know, but that's a

process. You get there. You know? Yeah. Yeah. It was like the

With your TED Talk, sorry. What was the so you speak you you

would have done thousands of talks. Yeah. Some,

Yeah. Why is it the TED 4? What because that

the magnitude of People people will watch that doc. Do you know what I mean?

Like, that I did that for, Like, yeah, I wanted to say

I've done it, but I did that because I knew people would watch it. I

knew I'd if I did a TED talk, I could get a book deal. If

I got a book deal, then, You know, you sorta need these things, and no

one's gonna watch, our keynote that I do. Well, I wouldn't recommend

it. It'd be boring. Like, Unless you're in a room, you know, then I'm guessing

it's not boring, but no one's gonna be sitting there with particularly

attention spans we have these days. But a TED Talks got that

magnitude about it. People watch them because they know it's the best that

somebody's got. They've put a lot of time into it, and it's 15 minutes.

You know? So that's all Yeah. Say what you've done

there, the way the story that you're telling, and you self up towards it.

And it's the same model for football as you know. Like, at training, you

can you can kick him from anywhere, But 30 meters straight out

in front when there's a 100,000 at the g, it's a different thing. You put

a different meaning on what that kick is. Whereas, really, you just go back and

put it through. Yeah. You know? And and the great players when we're talking about

beliefs. You know? You you listen to a Jonathan Brown or, you know, you see

Jamie Elliott there a couple of years ago at Anzac Day. Didn't even look for

the Didn't even look for the past. You know what I mean? In his head,

I'm born for this. You know, Jonathan Brown on the book, they've got that belief

where it's like, not on the on the man. Right? But the the rest

of it is, like, going to that story of what if I miss, what if

I you know? And and it's the same thing with public speaking. It's like, if

you can talk to 6 people. You can't

talk. You actually unless you make it into something else in your

mind. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it it can come and

go too. I found, like, some you know, for a couple of years,

you're confident as all hell, and you're doing everything, and you're not missing and,

you know, And and then all of a sudden, you might have an injury or

something, and you're coming back. And then it's like, you miss a couple and you

think, shit. Am I Have I still got it? Do I you know? Like and

everyone sorta goes through that. Yeah. Yeah.

You say that, quite often, don't you? You get a beautiful kick of the footy.

Everyone starts talking about what a great shot of goal they are, and then all

of a sudden, like, that's Pressuring their mind, and then it still changes.

Yeah. Changes that process, don't it? I definitely remember, like, when I went to Port

Adelaide, it was like, oh, he's a Great kick, and he's just gonna he doesn't

miss in all this. And then I went over there. I was it was you

know, I meant to not miss, and I meant to and I was just started

kicking 2 goals 3 and 1 goal 4, and, You know, it's like

it's in your head because you're thinking, oh, the fuck. The coaches brought

me over here to do this, and everyone thinks of that. And then I miss,

and it's like this big sigh from the whole team. Oh, he's not meant to

miss, and it's, you know, it's amazing what the brain and the mind can sorta,

you know, do. But is that is that self talk? Is that story we go

into? The meaning we put on that particular thing where it's a real

prod they all you know, they all talk about just coming back. Like, you talk

about Saudi just purely present and just Focus on

executing what you need to do. Yeah. Yeah. What about, I'm interested,

doc, because I've heard you live up on the hill over there in Noosa,

in in my paradise up there in Noosa where I'm

eventually, I'm gonna get up there and live for, you know, a period of time,

but Yeah. What does, your environment you know,

I I I guess I only got there for a couple of weeks at a

time, and, you know, I I just find that I'm

So calm and content and happy. And,

you know, in that environment compared to the sort of hustle and bustle in

Melbourne, Did that have any effect with you, or when

did you move up there? And, you know, how much how much does that

can that sort of influence, You know, how someone might feel?

Yeah. For me, it was really important, like, because I was,

yeah, I had a bad night club in time of venue and wasn't a particularly

healthy, wild star, really. And so

up here, it it was it was a really important part of me,

Yeah. Just getting healthy again, basically. And so I've got

my, routines that I do now, and I

find that that, you know, like, They've really helped me. I I

missed them when yeah. I can go without them now, but, like, I'm really

keen to to get back to it. And it's just, Yeah. I'll just find it's

a you know, I get out in nature a lot more. Like, you just

naturally do that here. So it's just a yeah. I'll just I'll just find it's

a a lot healthier and, Yeah. It's a yeah. I think, yeah, it's an

interesting one. Like, don't wanna harp on it, but I guess for

me personally, like, when you said the bar and, you know, pub scene sort of

thing, like, I certainly know when I'm going

out and partying and not being healthy as

much, Everything else in life becomes a lot more

difficult. Like, you know, those things in terms of, you know, if I was

to be put on the spot to be an emcee or Even, you

know, meetings at work or having big calls at work or, you know,

when you're coming in off a big weekend, it's like you I

I know personally, I stress so much more about them.

Whereas if I'm, you know, if I've had a good month and I'm healthy and

I'm fit and firing, It's like, bring it on. Like, your self talk

is so different. Yeah. The self talk is different. Yeah. And that's there

there's a chemical component to that So, like, it's like, any emotional state is

is just a bunch of chemicals in your body. So, you know, having a big

weekend just changes the chemical Chemicals anybody. You know? There's,

like, yeah, alcohol. It's like,

yeah, glutamate's got something to do with that fact that when you're on the grog,

you Your anxiety goes, you say anything anything to

anyone, but then the next day, the body's gone, We

haven't got any glutamate because that's been blocked for the alcohol. And then

so we produce more. The next day, you got twice as much, so you've got

double the anxiety. You know what I mean? I always knew that I got more

anxious. Like, I really struggled with anxiety after I've been on the grog, but

Yeah. When I learned, I was like, yeah. Of course. You know? So it's

like, I I had to I got off the ground for a period of

time, you know, when I was trying to get, get over my

anxiety or whatever. But then eventually, what you know, it's one of my favorite things

to do is, you know, have beer with my tits and so on. So now

I just don't I don't take the thought seriously, you know, in those

following days. It's just like I sort of I've learned to laugh at it

like you laugh at that voice that came up at the comedy gig. It's sort

of you you've recognized. And once you understand your nervous system and Yeah.

Understand what those voices are you know, the way that it's reacting and

responding, you you can learn to laugh at the thoughts almost.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's I think it's that's that's It's interesting that we spoke about

it a lot, You know, on previous podcast, but, like, educating

yourself. Like, when when you actually understand what's going on,

it's it's a lot easier to handle, I think. Like, And,

you know, I found it interesting that you, you know, you went and said, I've

gotta do this myself. I gotta figure this out myself and actually went and

understood, You know, the science behind it and what's actually going on in my body

Yeah. Because then you can sort of make it makes a bit more sense.

You know? So the next day when you're feeling shit or when you're Having one

of the you know, it's like, okay. I actually know what's going on in my

body now, so I can sort of compute it a little bit and

understand it, and then I can, you know, Try and do whatever

it might be to help. Yeah. Exactly. And I think a lot of people

are doing the same thing I did I did. You know? Like, you can get

on YouTube and look Or what's cures anxiety or

whatever, and that you come across someone who's telling you, do this. It works.

It's the best thing. You try that. It doesn't work. And then so you put

that in the bin and never again. But when you

when you actually learn about your nervous system, Then you go,

okay. That's why that works, but then but it's a piece of the puzzle.

Like, if I do this with that and to me, it's there's not one

Sure. Frank's already but there's always pieces of the puzzle. When you put them all

together, you can start to take charge of your emotional state and not get

those Feelings, but it's it's a matter of getting curious because

I think a lot of people are just wanting it fixed, you know, with a

pill or Any therapy session. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Therapy

session going to this therapist. They wanna walk out there now or later and just

be fixed. Whereas, to me, I I My

philosophy is around that education piece. It's just like when you

understand your nervous system, and there's nothing more fascinating to me.

Take on it, but learn about your nervous system. Like, it

is fucking fascinating. Like, and the the more you learn, the more you wanna learn,

and it's just incredible. And then once it then gives you this,

Owner's manual for your body. And then once you've got that, once you

can control your emotional state, you can Lean into

challenges and take things on, and it's possible to do stuff. It's like

so your anxiety, you know, why it can be the This could be

the most important thing that ever happens to you because when you learn about this

nervous system, then everything sort of opens up. Mhmm. Well, very

true. Like, emotions, Anxiety is emotion that we need,

like and it's never we're never going to lose it. Like, it's it's something

that we have to have, but the key is, like you said, being able to

regulate that. And and that's where everyone's different. There's no one

size fits all manual, and that's life in general. Like, if you wanna get

healthy, like, Some people might like riding, running, swimming, rolling. It doesn't matter.

Like, everybody is different. One of the things I wanna go back to

I'm backtracking a little bit here. Sorry, doc. When you know, there's a lot

of people here that like, you've got support networks and you've got friends,

and you know when someone's struggling and you wanna help them, but like you said

before, just Get on with it. Just do this. That's definitely not the right

way to go about it. What are for people listening, and I'm sure there's people

in your life that you may know are Struggling from some form of anxiety. They

might be a little bit depressed or something like that. What is a better way

to start the conversation than say you'll be alright? Just Get on with it or,

you know, just get out the door. Like, instead of telling them what

from what you've gone through, and I know all the work you do with clients,

How's a better way of reframing that conversation so the narrative

changes, and it's a positive outcome instead of burdening that

person by feeling like they can't do it or they're not as good or

do do you sorta get where I'm coming from? Yeah. It's basically I

think Just trying to I mean, for someone who's

not trained or educated or whatever, I think it's just

listening, really, that and then referring, Really. So

trying to trying to find out a bit yourself and trying to come across someone

that's yeah. The you you think might be able to help, but,

yeah, I think, actually, Understanding how they're

feeling rather than, like, what Jack said before, you know, like,

the 5th box. I'll just do it. Just get, I'll just get up there and

talk. Well, just, you know, I just that's it's just not the

answer. Like, it just, because when you're in an emotional state, you act from that

emotional state. Like, if you're in fear, you will act from that fear.

You know what I mean? So it's it's not probably not

telling them what to to do is try to understand,

you know, the emotion behind it. Mhmm.

Yep. That makes sense? Or Yeah. No. No. It does. It does. And I

think actively listening is probably one of the biggest skills that you can have in

life, and you can never get good at it. I don't know if you feel

like it's a it's a work in progress and something Yeah. I'll I'll be honest.

I used to I used to wait for the person to have a break so

I could just start talking again. And, you know, I think a lot of people

are like that. Whereas if you actually listen, If you're talking, you're not normally learning.

If you're listening, that's when you're learning, and that's a skill that we all

need to, you know, practice more. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll I'll look

back to, like, that that time I was talking to you about earlier, like,

the the real low point lowest of the low. The next

day, you know, I had a couple of mates that knew I

was in a pretty bad way, and then they come around to see me, and

I'd gone out. That's open for a drive, and they were Beside himself

all day because they thought that, you know, it might not end

well. And to to see the look on their face that night was really just

how much they cared and, how much

how scared that work? Because I I I thought I was sort of hiding it

to some extent, but how scared that were. That that was why I kept

call to me that people cared that much and that I was impacting other people

that much, and so it it really encouraged me to do

something about it. Yep. But just, you know, having having that care, I

suppose, it's just really important when you're in those stores. Yeah. It's it's, it

sort of shows how important it is let the people know that you love and

you care about. Like, when, yeah, when you're in a you know, I've I've

been in bad places in my life, and you feel like

you're all alone. You feel like you're worthless. You feel like you're, you

know, not like you're a burden on everyone around you rather

than, You know, understanding there's so many people out there that love

you and and are there for you and care for you, but, it's

and, you know, it's It's hard to sort of

understand that and feel that when you're feeling pretty shit about yourself.

So, you know, it is important for to let people know how much care about

them and, you know, might be a bit uncomfortable as blokes and

whatnot. But we need to change that, though. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

Like, that think that the narrative is changing, but, you know, we're still

gonna and that's why talking about it here is so important. Like,

Yeah. It's it's such an important thing, particularly for males.

Like Yeah. Well, you've just spoken about, you know, with your friends that day and

you saw much they cared. That was a long time ago. I still there's still

a stigma around it in a way. I think it's changing, but, yeah, we we

still need to get better at that. Yep. And as far as

getting back to what you said before, sorry, about, you know, what you can do

for people, I think just understanding that, you know, when, Like, what

Jack's talking about when you're in that depression, you can't see your way

out of that. That's all you can see. There's a doctor called doctor Paul Conte

who's He's it is brilliant with trauma and

depression and so on. And he he talks about it like when you're depressed,

it's like being in a room, and there's Beautiful things

out 3 sides of the through the windows on

3 sides, but through one side, it's just all shit.

Right? With depression, you it's like all the curtains are

closed, and you'd but you're just looking out this crack, and all you can see

is the shit, But this shit thinks you actually can't

see any of the positive stuff. So if everyone's just aware of that's what's

actually going on with someone when they're depressed, When you're tracking in the

brain, that's actually what's happening. It's just looping around on the

it's like a a scratch record just going round and round. You Can't actually

see anything but that. So just being aware of that, I

suppose, that they're not gonna be you can be trying to be positive and all

that, but they're actually telling them that what What a great person. I would've but

they're just not saying Yeah. That that's so it's just a matter of

Well, like like what you're saying about, they're only saying one thing. If you say

all these great things to them, and there's they'll pick up one thing that is

not a good thing, and that's what we'll repeat on the scratch loop for them

as well Yeah. While they're looking you know, they could be at the Noosa

life saving club. They got the best view ever all around, but they're looking at

the back wall. They don't realize how Yeah. That's it. They know how good it

is. Best place in the world, by the way, Tony Jacko. Get me those

prawns. Get me some of those prawns.

Okay. Now Gonna come up with this podcast, boys. Mate, we

we we pencil that in after this. Now, buddy,

obviously, you do a lot of work with 1 on 1 clients. I know that,

but, You speak to schools. You do corporate work, everything like

that. What is it that you do? And and for people listening

along here, how could they maybe find more, or do you have Do you have

courses out there or things coming up? Yes. I run programs,

and it's it's it's along the lines of what we've been talking about today.

So it's it's that awareness. It starts off with the awareness of what's going

on in your nervous system, how it's responding to things.

And I find once people will know that, then they're ready to actually do

something about it, you know, rather than just looking up something on YouTube

and Trying something and it and it not working. So I'll teach you that that

awareness of their nervous system, sort of giving the owner's manual to to it

really. And then it's It it's the checklist of what to do in those

situations. So how to control your emotional state, you know, how

to, Control that voice that we've been talking

about. You know, the way that you're interpreting situations, meaning you're putting on it, and

then getting to those beliefs that are getting triggered in the 1st place.

So There are 8 week programs or 8 session programs. I'll do that 1

on 1 also on group ones, which I've got one starting on March

20th, which, got runs for 8 weeks,

8 sessions. And there's an information item running on

March 13th, which is Totally free, and I'll I'll take people

through that that process. You know? Give them a bit of give them

the, You know, that awareness of their nervous system and

then just take them through the system, basically, of how

how they can get back to, you know, being what they wanna be. Yeah. Beautiful.

We'll have we'll have links. It's episode number 22, 2 little ducks as I said

earlier. We'll have a link for that, and then also where you can reach out

to doc. Now, have you got have you got a magical question to

sort of finish up here, Jacko? A magical question. Thanks

for putting me on the. I'm getting anxious. A good one.

Oh, you did. Hey. So hell with

AJ. He helps me out, you big fella. I'll run

with. That's a handball over the top, and you're in the gold square. Kick the

gold sun. Alright, doc. Just off the top of my

head, I've just come up with this out of nowhere. Right. What

is it that you are most proud of that either you've done in your

life or Something that you're most proud of yourself,

would love to hear. It's a great question. Just put you on the spot

It's a great question, Jack. Well done. Thanks, Siding. That's just

I was gonna say something I'm trying to think of

something for outside of what we've just talked about, but really it's things

like the it's the comedy gig, and it's just the fact that

it'll just keep going through the The hard times. Yeah. But that that's the thing.

Like, it's with these cup the the comedy gig. It's when you do something so

far out of your comfort zone and you prove yourself you can do it. It

just becomes the The whole lot of your life almost. You know? So it's

just that just just what I went through to get there, I suppose

nothing else comes to mind except that, really. Like, some of those

What's that sense of achievement? A big one. That's a that's a that's a big

one, though. Do you, talk to you, can you give us your best joke

from your, comedy routine. Like, what was what was Do you remember the routine? That's

all I wanna know. I think I wanna know you. You don't have to give

the whole routine, man. It looks like not gonna recite my whole TED Talk, but

surely, you've got that zinger, that, that one joke that's

just being an absolute delta. To

be honest, there's not a part of it that I could I could say.

Honestly, it was, Yeah. It

was around like, it was it was back in the days.

It lost It was back in the days, but The walls are just coming in

Talk to you soon. TV, dog. Yeah. I'm on wondering whether my mom's,

been listening to that one. Let's just say that the whole routine was

basically around being, a Catholic Boy,

growing up in church before the days where George Powell and,

yeah, I hope I hope they're going for it. Right, mate. We'll leave it there.

We'll leave it there. I probably don't wanna hear the joke.

Yeah. 1 for a side. Oh. You got plenty of little singing. Quite a good

joke. So what do you call a guy under a a heap of leaves?

Russell. Russell. Hey. A couple of dad

jokes. Seriously, mate. Doc,

we really appreciate your time today, mate. And more importantly, I

think, you know, when we talk about, you know, different,

You know, conditions and things people are going through, particularly at the moment, you

know, stress, anxiety, depression. It's all well and

good to tell people what to do or read it, but that That lived experience,

and I know that's why the work you're doing is so powerful and the impacts

you do have is because you have gone through it, And you have

come out the other side, and I think the big the big thing I've taken

away and from all the stuff I've done with you over the years is you

only get out what you put in, and no one's gonna do the work for

you, and that's evident of what you've said today. And even, you know, when you're

talking about a proud moment of being able to accommodate routine like that, that even

petrifies 2 people here that, you know, aren't in that state or anything like

that. So, yeah, if anyone's listening that

you you get out what you put in, and I think that's, You know, the

message and the work that you've done on yourself is a credit to you.

Yeah. No. I really appreciate, as always, you know, jumping on and

and sharing that because That is how people change, and that's

how things actually happen. Yeah. I couldn't

agree more. I think as well, like, when you're going through something like that, you

I feel like you everyone feels like they're on their own and no one else

has ever been through it, and and we all try and hide it, and we

all try and be Secretive because, oh, you're not meant to feel like this, or

you're not meant to, you know, meant to be this normal person. But

I know hearing, you know, the shit that I've been through in my life, Hearing

other people talk openly and honestly about going through something

similar, it's like the weight of the world just comes off your shoulders, and you

realize you're not the only person who's Done this before, or you're not the

only person who's going through something tough, and it just gives you that

hope. So, yeah, I really love the work you're doing, doc, and and what, you

know, What you've been able to achieve yourself and and now, you know, obviously,

just trying to help other people, it's, yeah. Good on you, mate.

Cheers, boys. And just I just wanna say, like, it doesn't have to be all

heavy either. It's just a matter of getting curious, you know, taking that

Attitudes, get overly excited about it and Yeah. Oh. Yep.

Get a little overly excited. We're we're going. That's funny

in there beautifully. Before we finish off, I'm I'm guessing learners,

listeners are curious to find out how they can rate you, mate. How can they

go about that? Yeah. Okay. I'm on Facebook, Damien Murdoch, mindset

coach. I'm on Instagram as AFL mind

coach. Alright. And then, doc@worldclassfriend.com

is my email. And, oh, I'm giving out my phone number. Oh, the

0 418 5 91549.

Perfect. So Alright. Well, there's a few different ways of doing

that there, and, Yeah. I I can vouch that, I think it was about the

3rd or 4th podcast I've done with you, mate. And then, each one,

you keep adding Different spins and different

elements on, you know, your journey and your story, but more importantly, the work

you've done. And, yeah, I really appreciate you getting excited with us

in Episode number 2 twin 22. Next, next

pod we do with your doc can be up on the, 3rd life saving. Just

looking over maybe with a cold one and some forms. I'll keep

you to that. Yeah.